Seth on Discipleship at effective web ministry notes

Seth on Discipleship

filed under Marketing, Response, Strategy by rob on 10Jul06 @ 8:41 am EST

Seth Godin is a true marketer at heart. In fact, it’s one reason I follow his work. He “gets it”. Marketing isn’t about “making a sell”. It’s, well, here’s what he said:

…the real point of marketing. It’s not to sell something to person A. Instead, at least right now, it’s to get person A to encourage person B to buy/do something. That’s often viewed as a nice after effect, a bonus or an extra. I think, though, that it might be the entire point of the exercise.

In ministry, we call this discipleship. And personally, I think with eMinistry, we’ve done a pretty decent job with evangelism (selling something to person A). Where we often lack is in training that person to go and do the same.

Now, I don’t particularly think that evangelism = selling. That’s too crude of an analogy. It takes God out of the equation. However, they share commonalities. So just work with it.

What sort of eMinistry discipleship practices are you trying? How is it working out for your ministry?

10 Responses to “Seth on Discipleship”

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1 JerryL on Jul 10th, 2006 said:

From my personal experience over the last 5 years in internet evangelism and attempted discipleship, I have to say that I am not convinced that discipleship over the internet is realistic. I have made countless attempts to engage new and old believers in discipleship online but to no avail!

The most I been able to do is be an exhorter, counselor and encourager. Often I have connected well with certain respondents, but eventually they will find a “real” person where they are to go deep! This is, in my mind, GREAT! As a result of this experience, I am convinced that the best thing we can do for those God brings our way on the internet is to begin earnestly building a global network of local contacts for these spiritually hungry new of renewed believers. There simply is NO substitute for personal contact with your mentor!

The internet is still a great place for finding these seekers and spiritually starved believers so let’s keep expanding our evangelistic presence on the web and push back the porn stronghold while we also build a global contact database for those who want to grow! What do you think?
2 rob on Jul 10th, 2006 said:

Thanks, Jerry. My experience is similar to yours. Though I’ve had some good back and forth email exchanges, the ratio is low of ongoing conversations to one reply. However, I’m not convinced that discipleship online won’t work. I tend to think right now it’s just NOT working well.

Face to face can never be replaced fully. However, there are some people who will need to be discipled and trained in an online environment. The question, in my mind, is how do we do that effectively?

Chat rooms, email, blogs, auto-responders, eLearning courses, and maybe even discussion boards, social communities, IM, podcasts, short movies, and SMS could work. I think we just haven’t really gotten there yet.

Either way, my vision is that ministry is happening. I want to help us figure out where and how these different tools fit in the ministry process! Some fit better than others.
3 JerryL on Jul 10th, 2006 said:

Thanks for your thoughtful reply Rob. No argument that ministry is happening, it is just a matter of what kind. For me, I see the internet ministry as a great connection maker rather than a garden in which to grow which in and of itself makes it all worthwhile. I just wonder what the rate of return will be if we push hard in an area that has borne little fruit thus far rather than focus on the areas of success and maximize them.

No response on my church network database idea…any thoughts? Discipling is such a key element in building the church to produce movements everywhere.
4 sheldon on Jul 12th, 2006 said:

Hi JerryL,

You said, “I have made countless attempts to engage new and old believers in discipleship online but to no avail!”

At TruthMedia we have seen a number of people find Jesus in our Chat rooms or on our sites and be discipled 100% online, even to the point of becoming staff.

I agree, Face to Face is easier but true discipleship does not require it.
5 JerryL on Jul 12th, 2006 said:

Hi Sheldon,

I rejoice in your success! Two things: 1) I am curious what your success rate is (specifically discipling, not evangelism) based on your total contacts. 2) I would take some issue with the statement “true discipleship does not require it”. I would be curious to know your definition of “true discipleship”. In my mind, it cannot be “true discipleship” without face-to-face time. Remember, the majority of communication is non-verbal and you simply must connect fully with your disciples to effectively mentor them.
6 sheldon on Jul 12th, 2006 said:

I’m a disciple of Jesus and I have never seen him face to face. I’ve read what he said, did and follow his commands.

Think of all of the people in China and the middle east that have been discipled by radio.

Paul discipled people through his letters.

I don’t have statistics of our discipleship success, I have many stories though. We are working on getting better track of our discipleship stats but it is hard to get a hold of as most of our discipleship of contacts occurs by volunteers and we do not receive reports from all of them.
7 JerryL on Jul 13th, 2006 said:

I can see your definition of discipling is much broader than mine. Therefore we are comparing apples and oranges…enough said! Keep up the great ministry!
8 sheldon on Jul 13th, 2006 said:

If you are talking about discipling like Jesus did with the twelve, then of course, face to face is the only way. I was simply responding to your statement that discipleship requires it.
9 Me, Who Else? on Jul 16th, 2006 said:

There are many levels of relationship and discipleship. There is not one best “deep” approach.

That may depend on the person’s best learning styles, the disciplers best skills in communication…any number of things. Time available. Family responsibilities. Work responsibilities. Other ministry responsibilities. We are PACKED. I benefit from adding the logical, theological, and technical by internet and email more than I could in person…probably due to cross gender sensibilities.
10 Me, Who Else? on Jul 16th, 2006 said:

To answer the question. I’m blogging. I teach there, share “real me”, and share info. It’s great. For young moms who are socially isolated…a great tool. I’ve done Bible studies by email…a bit difficult, but I made it work with what I had. That got me through one winter, and the study was medium to light.

Replies said they’d like to meet together at least once.

I doubt many had the time. People are so busy. A lot of my discipleship occurs at 10-11:00PM. the net allows for that.

It also allows for conflict resolution to be done non emotionally if you work with creative, emotional people who can’t really deal with issues during performance mode time. I’ve seen a lot of progress in our practice climate in doing a lot of meeting and planning by email. 1. There is a record, which provides some level of accountability 2. My spouse can review it, if and when they want or need to and 3. It saves time. Most of us don’t get lost in discussion about the latest bands and concerts planning by email.

It can be difficult if something is misunderstood, but people value my time trying to deal with it. We clear it up. Three kids, high noise level…I love the tool.