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	<title>Comments on: The Internet is Dangerous</title>
	<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/</link>
	<description>A place to record notes on effective web ministry</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-38077</link>
		<dc:creator>sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 03:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-38077</guid>
		<description>You see, some use the "Great commission" as an excuse to bash everyone into evangelizing, the great commission is not a great commandment but a responsibility, that God will prepare each person and use them as He feels fit. If you are called into evangelizing on the Internet, then go ahead. But that does not mean all of us are called into it. Some of us are called into other areas that God sees fit to use us. Evangelizing is not the ONLY ministry of the church. You just follow your calling properly and let others follow theirs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You see, some use the &#8220;Great commission&#8221; as an excuse to bash everyone into evangelizing, the great commission is not a great commandment but a responsibility, that God will prepare each person and use them as He feels fit. If you are called into evangelizing on the Internet, then go ahead. But that does not mean all of us are called into it. Some of us are called into other areas that God sees fit to use us. Evangelizing is not the ONLY ministry of the church. You just follow your calling properly and let others follow theirs.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-36504</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-36504</guid>
		<description>I continue to mull as comments come in here.  Great stretch point!  I think all those I've known who've taken risks to reach people with thanksgiving for their great love and boldness.

Peter and Paul:  Wow, that brings in a whole new line of thinking.  

Personal thoughts:  I've experienced times in my life where I really feel I could go anywhere and do anything to touch people for Christ.  There was just an aura over me, a protection that was not going to let anything touch me...I could "trample the lion and the cobra". 

Flip Side:  Yet, there are times I've come face to face with my own  vulnerabilities -- I thought I was stronger than I was.  Yes, Christ met ALL my needs, in very real and deep way, but, at the same time, in the flesh, I was much needier than I thought!  I likely experienced much more gratification from a risky area of ministry than I realized.

So, I'm thinking:  We need to come face to face with human vulnerabilities, as well, even though we try to live on a higher plane.  

I know people who are spiritual, in-touch, fulfilled, and strong who fall because they did not practice good boundaries in areas that are known by wise Christians to be dangerous pits that are too slimy to  climb out of once a person slips in, falls in, or stumbles into.  (Psalms are filled with examples of pits, even with those who experienced God in real ways constantly).  

This principle astounds me more and more the older I get.  The whole "Godly people who do ungoldy things" idea.  "But, if they are truly 'godly'..." and "Why wouldn't God protect them?"  and "What about the 'covering' to do mighty exploits in his name?" 

Perhaps, we have to walk boldly without walking...what's the word..."presumsuously".  Or, presuming "it" won't affect us, get us, move us, or draw us.  Coming to terms with the fact that we are human; things that affect humans, also affect us.  

We can move so slowly into pits that we don't even know we are being trapped.  I've been in some situations where I did not know I was in the wrong for several years afterward I was so slowly moved into the wrong. That's how what is clearly wrong, can suddenly seem godly and right, even to the godly. And they are deceived.  I just think we have to address that reality.  Vulnerability in ministry.  I wish it were an areas I was more prepared for in my zeal and even self righteousness.  I was self righteously very wrong because I thought I was above falling into trouble along the way. Ministry is not easy.  There is a Proverb I think of that says, "be careful of trying to help another up, lest you fall."  I think that's a very real possibility we don't like to think about or prepare people for.  Are we afraid of scaring people from ministry? 

I hope not.  I think we need to prepare people for the pitfalls of ministry, especially for untrained lay people, more than we do.  

Motive, direction, ACCOUNTABILITY-- Peter and Paul didn't "go in" without that kind of support. 

We need a clear direction, the kind they had from the Lord, before we just try to "live dangerously" for the sake of the gospel.  I'm not advocating that we should live in fear, but Fearfully.  If God leads...GO!  

Well, this got long...sorry for that. 

  


and had to steer away from certain environments to stay obedient to the sanctification process God was trying to work in my own life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I continue to mull as comments come in here.  Great stretch point!  I think all those I&#8217;ve known who&#8217;ve taken risks to reach people with thanksgiving for their great love and boldness.</p>
<p>Peter and Paul:  Wow, that brings in a whole new line of thinking.  </p>
<p>Personal thoughts:  I&#8217;ve experienced times in my life where I really feel I could go anywhere and do anything to touch people for Christ.  There was just an aura over me, a protection that was not going to let anything touch me&#8230;I could &#8220;trample the lion and the cobra&#8221;. </p>
<p>Flip Side:  Yet, there are times I&#8217;ve come face to face with my own  vulnerabilities &#8212; I thought I was stronger than I was.  Yes, Christ met ALL my needs, in very real and deep way, but, at the same time, in the flesh, I was much needier than I thought!  I likely experienced much more gratification from a risky area of ministry than I realized.</p>
<p>So, I&#8217;m thinking:  We need to come face to face with human vulnerabilities, as well, even though we try to live on a higher plane.  </p>
<p>I know people who are spiritual, in-touch, fulfilled, and strong who fall because they did not practice good boundaries in areas that are known by wise Christians to be dangerous pits that are too slimy to  climb out of once a person slips in, falls in, or stumbles into.  (Psalms are filled with examples of pits, even with those who experienced God in real ways constantly).  </p>
<p>This principle astounds me more and more the older I get.  The whole &#8220;Godly people who do ungoldy things&#8221; idea.  &#8220;But, if they are truly &#8216;godly&#8217;&#8230;&#8221; and &#8220;Why wouldn&#8217;t God protect them?&#8221;  and &#8220;What about the &#8216;covering&#8217; to do mighty exploits in his name?&#8221; </p>
<p>Perhaps, we have to walk boldly without walking&#8230;what&#8217;s the word&#8230;&#8221;presumsuously&#8221;.  Or, presuming &#8220;it&#8221; won&#8217;t affect us, get us, move us, or draw us.  Coming to terms with the fact that we are human; things that affect humans, also affect us.  </p>
<p>We can move so slowly into pits that we don&#8217;t even know we are being trapped.  I&#8217;ve been in some situations where I did not know I was in the wrong for several years afterward I was so slowly moved into the wrong. That&#8217;s how what is clearly wrong, can suddenly seem godly and right, even to the godly. And they are deceived.  I just think we have to address that reality.  Vulnerability in ministry.  I wish it were an areas I was more prepared for in my zeal and even self righteousness.  I was self righteously very wrong because I thought I was above falling into trouble along the way. Ministry is not easy.  There is a Proverb I think of that says, &#8220;be careful of trying to help another up, lest you fall.&#8221;  I think that&#8217;s a very real possibility we don&#8217;t like to think about or prepare people for.  Are we afraid of scaring people from ministry? </p>
<p>I hope not.  I think we need to prepare people for the pitfalls of ministry, especially for untrained lay people, more than we do.  </p>
<p>Motive, direction, ACCOUNTABILITY&#8211; Peter and Paul didn&#8217;t &#8220;go in&#8221; without that kind of support. </p>
<p>We need a clear direction, the kind they had from the Lord, before we just try to &#8220;live dangerously&#8221; for the sake of the gospel.  I&#8217;m not advocating that we should live in fear, but Fearfully.  If God leads&#8230;GO!  </p>
<p>Well, this got long&#8230;sorry for that. </p>
<p>and had to steer away from certain environments to stay obedient to the sanctification process God was trying to work in my own life.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-36495</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-36495</guid>
		<description>There has been Christian communities that get a lot of flack even from secular press that they are hiding away but are in essence safe havens, one good example is the recent GodTube. We need these places to be encouraged like we are encouraged in church.
I think as Christians we are called to always be on the attack for Christ and by that I mean being on offense. We do have to go into those places that are uncomfortable. Shift back in history to just under 2000 years and we saw that Paul and Peter were doing just that, in environments they were nearly always persecuted in. If they hadn't had been offensive encourager's for Christ I can't imagine what the presence of church would have been like today. Of course they didn't do it in there own strength and it was a mission from God, but I just want to ask you what is the difference between you/me and them, we have the same mission the same Holy Spirit.
I think the sign of a good safe haven is one that encourages and equips you in your faith in Jesus and then gets you going to share your faith in the way I just described.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There has been Christian communities that get a lot of flack even from secular press that they are hiding away but are in essence safe havens, one good example is the recent GodTube. We need these places to be encouraged like we are encouraged in church.<br />
I think as Christians we are called to always be on the attack for Christ and by that I mean being on offense. We do have to go into those places that are uncomfortable. Shift back in history to just under 2000 years and we saw that Paul and Peter were doing just that, in environments they were nearly always persecuted in. If they hadn&#8217;t had been offensive encourager&#8217;s for Christ I can&#8217;t imagine what the presence of church would have been like today. Of course they didn&#8217;t do it in there own strength and it was a mission from God, but I just want to ask you what is the difference between you/me and them, we have the same mission the same Holy Spirit.<br />
I think the sign of a good safe haven is one that encourages and equips you in your faith in Jesus and then gets you going to share your faith in the way I just described.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob &#38; Patricia Williams &#187; Catching Up on Good Friday</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-36245</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob &#38; Patricia Williams &#187; Catching Up on Good Friday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-36245</guid>
		<description>[...] top of all that I&#8217;ve seen some really interesting things happening in the online culture: we discussed the Christian response to the dangers of the internet, have seen our Romanian student website attacked, seen the video sharing website YouTube shut down [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] top of all that I&#8217;ve seen some really interesting things happening in the online culture: we discussed the Christian response to the dangers of the internet, have seen our Romanian student website attacked, seen the video sharing website YouTube shut down [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Think Christian &#187; Blog Archive &#187; If you can&#8217;t say anything nice&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35320</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Christian &#187; Blog Archive &#187; If you can&#8217;t say anything nice&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35320</guid>
		<description>[...] update: Rob at the Effective Web Ministry Blog offers some thoughts on this and related subjects, and is calling for discussion about it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] update: Rob at the Effective Web Ministry Blog offers some thoughts on this and related subjects, and is calling for discussion about it. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35319</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35319</guid>
		<description>yes, I agree that the internet really is benign in and of itself.  It's just a medium like paper: it can be used to print a Bible or a pornographic image.

But that's not so much the issue here.  I think the question isn't about the internet as a whole, but more about the social medium that it has become.  Where do we go interact?  And do we go places online that aren't encouraging places (or can be)?

I totally agree that we need to teach the less mature the realities of the dangerous places.  I think the burden is on mature Christians to help our younger brothers and sisters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, I agree that the internet really is benign in and of itself.  It&#8217;s just a medium like paper: it can be used to print a Bible or a pornographic image.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not so much the issue here.  I think the question isn&#8217;t about the internet as a whole, but more about the social medium that it has become.  Where do we go interact?  And do we go places online that aren&#8217;t encouraging places (or can be)?</p>
<p>I totally agree that we need to teach the less mature the realities of the dangerous places.  I think the burden is on mature Christians to help our younger brothers and sisters.</p>
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		<title>By: Fran Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35308</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35308</guid>
		<description>The internet  is simply a tool. The information and communication facets specific to the internet are especially attractive to our human flesh.  Combine that with the anonymity of the internet and you have a particularly dangerous mix of attractions.

Therefore for the Christian the danger is that since you can be anonymous you can express ideas that are extreme in any direction.  There is the notion that your ideas cannot/will not be traced and that is attractive if the Christian is not grounded in grace and is legalistic in his/her faith and wants to be perceived as intellegent, insightful and enlightened.  And the images you see affect only you.

The Bible warns us that (2 Timothy 4:3)
"You're going to find that there will be times when people will have no stomach for solid teaching, but will fill up on spiritual junk foodâ€”catchy opinions that tickle their fancy. They'll turn their backs on truth and chase mirages. But youâ€”keep your eye on what you're doing; accept the hard times along with the good; keep the Message alive; do a thorough job as God's servant."

There is the desire to be thought of as "spiritual" without acknowledging God as God.  Think of The Secret.

The immature person (i.e. teenager) hasn't enough basis on which to reject lies presented to them online.  The culture in which they are being raised does not define truth as the Bible does and therefore the thoughts and images posed on the internet are not percieved as lies.  Of course, this can happen to the mature adult as well.  Think about the soap operas that grandmothers everywhere can be attracted to.

Enough of my soapbox.

WHAT we can do.....I think we owe it to our children to teach them the dangers of all media...easier said than done.  We need to monitor their online activities because "it only takes a little yeast to contaminate the whole loaf".  Then, when they can understand, we need to teach them how sin harms them.  We cannot hide from evil.  We have to confront it and live wisely.

It's easier to teach rules (don't use the internet), harder to teach truth.  We cannot teach truth unless it is in us.  We need to hold each other accountable and teach our disciples truth.

Can I get a witness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The internet  is simply a tool. The information and communication facets specific to the internet are especially attractive to our human flesh.  Combine that with the anonymity of the internet and you have a particularly dangerous mix of attractions.</p>
<p>Therefore for the Christian the danger is that since you can be anonymous you can express ideas that are extreme in any direction.  There is the notion that your ideas cannot/will not be traced and that is attractive if the Christian is not grounded in grace and is legalistic in his/her faith and wants to be perceived as intellegent, insightful and enlightened.  And the images you see affect only you.</p>
<p>The Bible warns us that (2 Timothy 4:3)<br />
&#8220;You&#8217;re going to find that there will be times when people will have no stomach for solid teaching, but will fill up on spiritual junk foodâ€”catchy opinions that tickle their fancy. They&#8217;ll turn their backs on truth and chase mirages. But youâ€”keep your eye on what you&#8217;re doing; accept the hard times along with the good; keep the Message alive; do a thorough job as God&#8217;s servant.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is the desire to be thought of as &#8220;spiritual&#8221; without acknowledging God as God.  Think of The Secret.</p>
<p>The immature person (i.e. teenager) hasn&#8217;t enough basis on which to reject lies presented to them online.  The culture in which they are being raised does not define truth as the Bible does and therefore the thoughts and images posed on the internet are not percieved as lies.  Of course, this can happen to the mature adult as well.  Think about the soap operas that grandmothers everywhere can be attracted to.</p>
<p>Enough of my soapbox.</p>
<p>WHAT we can do&#8230;..I think we owe it to our children to teach them the dangers of all media&#8230;easier said than done.  We need to monitor their online activities because &#8220;it only takes a little yeast to contaminate the whole loaf&#8221;.  Then, when they can understand, we need to teach them how sin harms them.  We cannot hide from evil.  We have to confront it and live wisely.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easier to teach rules (don&#8217;t use the internet), harder to teach truth.  We cannot teach truth unless it is in us.  We need to hold each other accountable and teach our disciples truth.</p>
<p>Can I get a witness?</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35301</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35301</guid>
		<description>Good ones to mull, Rob.

There was a very creative comment addressed to  you on my blog overnight: 
 http://5purposedriven.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/1466/#comments

Blessings! 
Maggie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good ones to mull, Rob.</p>
<p>There was a very creative comment addressed to  you on my blog overnight:<br />
 <a href="http://5purposedriven.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/1466/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://5purposedriven.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/1466/#comments</a></p>
<p>Blessings!<br />
Maggie</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35299</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35299</guid>
		<description>I couple of other verses came to me last night as I was going to bed that go along with what Maggie quoted: "everything is permissible, not all beneficial" and the one about not being a stumbling block for others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couple of other verses came to me last night as I was going to bed that go along with what Maggie quoted: &#8220;everything is permissible, not all beneficial&#8221; and the one about not being a stumbling block for others.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35288</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 04:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.eministrynotes.com/2007/03/27/the-internet-is-dangerous/#comment-35288</guid>
		<description>Hmmmmm...I am not sure I believe the internet is itself dangerous. In fact, I believe the internet is a marvelous global communication tool. Never before have we so easily communicated with people in nearly every corner of the world 24/7!

Rather, what is dangerous is the dark heart of man. We must be careful not to "throw the baby out with the bath water"! We need to be committed to engaging people at every opportunity to bring them into/further into the light. We can do no less.

One of my eDreams is to literally flood the internet with websites full of light to overtake the reported 60% that is porn. 

I agree with the idea of creating safe havens (I even labeled my old Xanga site eSafe Haven!) They provide a place to escape the darkness created by the uninformed for a time of refreshment.

Regarding boycotts: Initially I was against them, but I believe God spoke to me to use this powerful tool selectively. Since profit is the motivation of all corporations, it can be very effective. The biggest problem is that we typically do not focus. Thanks to the power of the internet, we are bombarded by invitations to boycott many things. As a result, we rarely muster enough energy for any particular cause to any response. We need a boycott clearing house to help identify the key issues and then focus on those. While I do not agree much with rev. Falwell, I do agree with his supposition that we are largely a "silent majority".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmmm&#8230;I am not sure I believe the internet is itself dangerous. In fact, I believe the internet is a marvelous global communication tool. Never before have we so easily communicated with people in nearly every corner of the world 24/7!</p>
<p>Rather, what is dangerous is the dark heart of man. We must be careful not to &#8220;throw the baby out with the bath water&#8221;! We need to be committed to engaging people at every opportunity to bring them into/further into the light. We can do no less.</p>
<p>One of my eDreams is to literally flood the internet with websites full of light to overtake the reported 60% that is porn. </p>
<p>I agree with the idea of creating safe havens (I even labeled my old Xanga site eSafe Haven!) They provide a place to escape the darkness created by the uninformed for a time of refreshment.</p>
<p>Regarding boycotts: Initially I was against them, but I believe God spoke to me to use this powerful tool selectively. Since profit is the motivation of all corporations, it can be very effective. The biggest problem is that we typically do not focus. Thanks to the power of the internet, we are bombarded by invitations to boycott many things. As a result, we rarely muster enough energy for any particular cause to any response. We need a boycott clearing house to help identify the key issues and then focus on those. While I do not agree much with rev. Falwell, I do agree with his supposition that we are largely a &#8220;silent majority&#8221;.</p>
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